Interview with Permanent Makeup Artist Lulu Azizi
In today's episode, I sat down and talked with a very special guest and dear friend of mine, Lulu Azizi. She is a licensed esthetician and permanent makeup artist. And in this episode, we talk all about her business and the industry of permanent makeup and aesthetics, where she's going in her business, how far she's come.
And I really think that you're going to gain a lot of value in this episode because she has so much insight to share. And it's just another perspective, another person that is succeeding in their own way. And I love to highlight these kind of stories.
So I really hope that you enjoy this episode. So without further ado, let's dive in. Welcome to the Spa Business Building Podcast.
Your go-to destination for turning your passion as a beauty or wellness professional into a successful and profitable business. I'm Tiffany, your host. I'm a mom, wife, licensed esthetician and massage therapist, enthusiast of all things business building.
Not too long ago, I took a bold step into entrepreneurship, embracing the roles as a wife and mother of two while venturing into the spa industry as a solo practitioner. Armed with nearly two decades of expertise as a licensed esthetician and massage therapist, my passion for the spa industry fueled my determination to succeed despite having zero business experience and no client base. I created Spa Business Building because I've been in your shoes.
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Hi Lulu, thank you for joining me today.
Hello Tiffany. I'm so happy to be here.
So Lulu, I had you join me today because I really wanted to highlight you in your business and how you have grown. I think that your story can be inspiring for listeners and I just really wanted to highlight that. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, your business, what you do?
Well, my name is Lulu and my business is Luxe and Lulu, permanent cosmetics and aesthetics. I'm a licensed esthetician and a licensed tattooist. I originally went to school for art, so I was a focused portrait artist and I just always loved faces and this industry just really randomly landed on my lap, to be honest.
But there's so much more I could say, but how much time you got?
That's awesome, though, so what inspired you to become an esthetician and then specialize in permanent makeup?
So in, let's see here, about 2008, I was in college to be an art teacher. I wanted to be an art professor. So I was taking a lot of general ads and art classes.
And for some reason, being in school for that, I just couldn't see like an end vision with it. I felt like I was just wasting time. I didn't actually, even though I knew I wanted to be an art teacher, I didn't really know if I wanted to be an art teacher.
It was just kind of like, what do you want to be when you grow up? Oh, I like this thing. So maybe I'll be that.
But while I was in school, I just saw dollar signs. I was like, I don't know if I feel confident investing in this. I went to Milwaukee Art Institute and took my portfolio there.
I was like, maybe I'll be like a, you know, a hardcore art student. But I was like, no, I just I can't see myself investing in this and getting this debt. My sister was in cosmetology school, and she said, have you heard of aesthetics?
I was 23 at this time, and I was like, I got to do something like time is running out. I need a degree, a job. And I said, I have no idea what that is.
Never heard the word in my life. So my cousin lived here in Madison, and I'm from an hour away. And I was talking to her too.
She always inspired me to stand on my own two feet. And she said, come live with me in Madison. And I was like, okay, well, maybe I can do this aesthetics thing in Madison.
So I looked up a school at the time. It was, I think it changed to Empire Beauty School on Audana Road, but I'm not sure what it was before that. And the timing was just right.
The registration just happened to be like right away, which is what I wanted.
And I enrolled in it. So that's pretty much how that went. I signed up and I loved it.
That's awesome. So when did you decide to pivot into permanent makeup?
So I decided to add permanent makeup in 2017. Let's see. No, 2017 I started my business, January of 2018, I flew out to Utah and I got my microblading certificate.
I was focusing on eyebrow corrections with natural hair. So therefore, my clients were saying, Lulu, I'm hearing about this microblading, where should I go get it done? And at that point, I had hundreds of repeat clients.
And I thought to myself, I'm going to go learn how to do this because I'm not referring my clients anywhere else. And that's when all my hardships in business started. When I got my microblading certificate.
Why do you say that?
Well, I always tell people, learning microblading is harder than going through labor without an epidural. Experience twice. Okay, picture this.
You're an esthetician. Your job is to make people feel good. You're supposed to make their skin feel nice.
You're supposed to give them comfort, make them cozy, give them a blanket. All of a sudden, I'm working like a surgeon. I'm cutting people's skin with a blade and it just did not feel right for me.
I felt like I was damaging their skin. I didn't like the technique. I thought, oh my God, how am I going to do this?
I thought I was just going to be like doodling on their forehead. I had no idea. I would actually be creating a pattern of micro cuts across their whole eyebrow.
So it was stressful for me.
Yeah, I could totally see that. That's kind of like with waxing. When you learn waxing in school, you're like, wait, I'm actually going to inflict pain on somebody.
That seems so backwards. So then you started. How did you start advertising or promoting yourself as a permanent makeup artist then?
Were you doing more permanent makeup or you were trying to do both the aesthetics and the permanent makeup?
So this is an interesting part because I had a full clientele of repeat clients. I had over 700 repeat aesthetics clients. Like this was my prime.
I was in it to win it. And I thought, how am I going to add this other technique to my business because I don't have room for this. There was a period where I had to just stop offering aesthetics altogether to focus on permanent makeup only.
Because what I noticed is that I was doing about 90% aesthetics and 10% permanent makeup in the beginning. And I wasn't able to get as strong as I needed to and comfortable with that. So therefore, I decided I'm going to hire somebody to take this overfill of aesthetics clients that I have.
And I'm just going to focus on permanent makeup only for one year and see how I feel about it, which was really scary. But it's ultimately what I needed to do.
Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense, because then you weren't able to focus as much time, so then you weren't growing your skill, because the more that you're doing it, the more you're able to perfect it. So then you had to kind of stop doing the aesthetics part.
I get that. So how do you like stay up to date on like the latest trends when it comes to like your permanent makeup techniques?
Well, I would say mostly from Instagram. I fortunately, from the beginning of my career, really created friendships with people all over the country who are reputable trainers for big companies. And we had formed social groups on chats with Instagram, and we talked a lot about what's better.
And I've seen them post and communicate about the latest techniques, the latest old techniques, and why we're moving forward. So I would say Instagram and Facebook.
Nice. Okay. So you've built these connections with other professionals in the industry, and they're kind of a community.
They're wanting to help and empower other permanent makeup artists as well. That's really awesome.
I love that. From going to classes and courses all over the country, you build relationships with people.
So you're always perfecting your skill and trying to stay up to date with... Where do you see the future of permanent makeup going? Where do you see it evolving?
Well, for myself, I don't know about the general public. I feel that more seasoned and experienced artists are moving away from microblading. And we're using the tattoo machine to create results with hair strokes and shading.
So I would say the more experienced artists who have had over five years experience are moving away from microblading.
Why would you say that is?
Well, because the microblading cuts the skin and the tattoo machine punctures the skin. So the puncturing effect is healthier long term for the skin. And there's more flexibility and creativity with the tattoo machine.
That makes sense. So I want to ask, so what advice would you give an esthetician who is wanting to pivot into the world of permanent makeup?
Well, the world of permanent makeup is like the business of the hospital. Although, okay, how do I say this? You can't, you have to really watch and talk to somebody who has the experience, not somebody who is trying to sell you a dream, not somebody who is trying to sell you a course, somebody who is really going to be honest and say, hey, this technique is not the right technique, although it's a buzzword and everybody wants it because they don't really understand it, doesn't mean it's the right technique.
So it's really hard to sway somebody to make them believe you when it comes to this industry because it's not a very honest industry, in my opinion, sometimes.
So I would say just watch social media, watch what people are doing and what they're trying to put out there, are they focused on? I would say in this industry, you have to be mindful because a lot of people are trying to sell you a fast stream. And I think you know what I mean.
You can have this in your bag or this nice car and go on these jets, but no, it's not like[…].
So it's not about trying to chase the dollar signs. It's really about educating yourself and being picky on who you choose to educate you, making sure that they embody with their mission statement of why they're tattooing and all of that combined and not just, like you said, chasing after someone who looks like they have it all, because they may not be well-educated in the permanent makeup. They're just making it seem like they are, for sure.
So my question is having a better understanding of how the skin works as a permanent makeup artist, like being an esthetician and then maybe moving into that permanent makeup artistry role, would you say that you benefited from that, from knowing more about the skin first and how it functions as an organ, and then moving into permanent makeup artistry, would you say that that is a benefit?
This is an interesting topic because from the beginning, I keep proving my point in this industry. And I only wish I had the courage back in the day to be like, even though I did have the courage and I did say a lot of things about what I felt was right and wrong, now it's coming to light and showing through that I was right the whole time. Early in my career when I was microblading, I felt very wrong about the technique because I noticed that it wasn't working well on most skin types.
I thought it was me. I thought it was, you know, because I was doing something wrong. So I kept investing more money in training and kept perfecting the craft, learning it.
And with each year, I was like, I just don't. I think it's the technique. I don't think it's me anymore.
So then I went to Chicago and I learned the tattoo machine. And the moment I started doing it, I thought, wow, my life has changed. I don't want to do microblading anymore.
This is beautiful. This result is amazing. And I started doing borderless powder brows, which is like borderless shading on most of my clients.
And I just, I loved it. It was beautiful. But there was a catch with that.
Some people needed more of a 3D effect because of their eyebrow hair pattern. And so I needed to learn hair strokes. And then later on down the road, hair strokes with the tattoo machine became the most popular service, which a lot of people in the Midwest don't really know how to do that yet.
So I feel really glad that I started practicing that a few years ago, actually. But I would say being a professional eyebrow artist and being an esthetician for 15 years has really shaped me in permanent makeup.
We've been friends this past year, and I follow you really closely on social media. And I do say your images of the work that you do is beautiful. I think you do a really good job.
And I can tell that you are a true artist, and it shows in your work, and that you really care about the skin health of people. And I know that you talk about that a lot in your posts, and I think you do a really great job.
Thank you.
I just wanted to put that up there. Yeah, so I want to switch more into kind of how you've market your promoted yourself and built your business. So you have this background as an esthetician, you move into permit makeup, and you've had some changes along the way because you made a big move.
You were at a space for a few years, and then you decided to kind of move locations, and you had to kind of start over again with that promoting yourself again. So I kind of want to just talk a little bit about that. How would you say you feel your best strategies, the key marketing strategies that you have found that has worked well for you for promoting skincare and permanent makeup?
Yeah, that's really interesting. So I started my career in a spa for about eight years. I worked as a front desk receptionist, and then I went to the back and did spa, and I was trying to kind of figure out like, you know, because when you work in a spa, they talk to you about skincare goals, product sales, you know, how much waxing are you doing versus how much skincare?
What's the percentage? You know, your growth every year, how many clients are you retaining? How many new clients are you seeing?
How many clients are you losing? So that was really helpful as a new esthetician, to kind of gain that knowledge of like, wow, I actually have to put in the work, you know, to where I am. When I started my business, I was on University Avenue in a health and wellness building.
It was a very reputable building, and a great location. It was right next to Whole Foods. A lot of people still to this day know that building, the Courier Arts Building.
And so I was there for six or seven years. It was the smallest room ever, and it was busy. There was a lot of turnover.
And at one point, I had hired somebody, and she was there when I wasn't there, and she had a lot of new clients. I was surprised I was on maternity leave with my second child, so I was like 40 minutes away, so I was just sitting at home trying to survive. But I moved my business closer to home in Sun Prairie, and that was a huge change for me.
I knew that my business mission would change. I thought about it for a while, and I thought, okay, I'm spending 80 minutes a day driving to University Avenue from Sun Prairie. I bought a house here a couple years ago, so my commute was really long.
And I have small children. What am I going to do? And I thought, I really need to maintain this income that I have.
And if I move, not everybody is going to be able to follow me because a lot of my clientele were like me, moms with small kids who don't have a lot of time. That's just who I attracted in my business. And so when I moved here to this location, I had to pivot again in business.
I couldn't sit there and dwell on the fact that changes were happening again for me. I had to just think about what's my next move in business. And I have a lot of stuff going on right now, so where would you like to go with that?
Yeah, I mean, why don't you share some of the future of your business and where you're pivoting and how you're growing?
Well, I am creating an online business right now for education, so that is my focus.
That's so exciting.
When I started my business, all I cared about was being booked and busy, just back to back. If I wasn't busy, I just thought of myself as a loser, not trying hard enough. You better get after it.
You got to be busy, busy, busy. That's the mentality I grew up with. I don't know.
I was born in 85. My parents have hard work ethic, and it's the old way. I think people nowadays are smarter, but I just don't know if they have the work ethic that was ingrained.
Is that the word engraved or ingrained enough?
Ingrained, yeah.
I speak two languages, by the way. So, you know, I changed my mission. I thought, you know, now I have some gaps in my schedule.
Like, wow, I got to think about how am I going to fill in these gaps? I'm a very proactive, positive person when it comes to business. I just make moves.
You know what I mean? So I'm creating some online courses, and they're almost done, and I've learned how to do the editing. I'm just so excited.
Every time I'm creating a video, I'm literally in bed just smiling, feeling like I'm on top of the world.
That's so awesome. And, you know, as you're saying this, I'm picturing in my mind, I'm like, Lulu, you are the prime example. You're such an inspiration for people who are, who want to go solo or who are solo and are, you know, trying to figure out how to grow their business.
You literally started, you know, and you've worked your way up, and you've, you know, pivoted when needed. You know, you had children, and you knew, you know, you hired somebody, and whether that worked out or not, like, you've pivoted from there, and your business has only gone up. And sometimes it can hard, it can be really hard to see that when it's you looking inside.
But from a, from me on the outside, I see that I see you as a successful business owner, like these steps that you've taken, and now you're in this role where you're, you can start, you know, empowering others with your education, and, you know, teaching people your techniques in the business side, and all of that kind of stuff in the, you know, permanent makeup artistry world. And I think it's really great. I see you as a successful person, whether we view ourselves as successful.
I, that's why I wanted to highlight your story, because I see how you've grown, and I think you're a true inspiration.
Thank you. So you are starting an online course. What is your course about?
What are you going to be? Because you said it's almost finished, right? Mm-hmm.
So the online course about how to shade eyebrows. And it's just about that. So when you start in permanent makeup, you spend a lot of time doing research after your live course to figure out like all the details of permanent makeup.
At least I do. I want everything to be right. So I spend a lot of time studying the craft.
And so in this course, it is going to be about 50 steps. There's so much information from color theory to machines and movements to even practicing on paper to get that mind control and good habits from the beginning to learn how to stack and layer. It's, oh my gosh, Tiffany, it's just so much information.
I've added links and resources to other pages where you can get more information. I've did a live feature that I've edited and I've put on there. It's so good.
And then I have...
So this is for someone who is already trained in permanent makeup, but they're wanting to kind of add on more techniques, kind of build on to their skills.
So this particular course is for beginners or new people who feel that... They need more training or not that they didn't get a good training, but they need more training. They need more thorough training.
So this is who it's for. Powder brows, but tip... Technically, it's for the machine, learning how to shade with the machine.
Awesome. Great. So going back, what advice, because you talked a little bit about the skin health and whatnot, but what advice can you give someone on the approach for client consultations?
Because I feel like in these groups that I'm in, I hear a lot of people saying the consultations can be the hardest. Making sure that you're matching expectations from the clients with what you can deliver. So what is your advice to the approach to consultations to ensure that their expectations align with those results?
Well, something that I've created recently was a questionnaire, a form that I give people now when they sign up for permanent makeup to get an idea of, you know, whose eyebrows they love and what they want from their own and just their expectations overall. To see if I'm the right artist for them, because that's also something is we don't want to take everybody in this industry. We want you to go to who you think has the best work and who falls in line with your aesthetic if you're the client.
As a professional eyebrow artist, I do utilize makeup tools that I retail here to do a mock-up on their eyebrows. So I just have them just kind of give me an idea of what they want. They hold a mirror, they look at themselves, and I just listen.
I truly just listen, and I give a couple comments here and there because I want to take in everything they say, and I say just give it to me right now. Give it all. And I use makeup to kind of see what would fit on their eyebrow the best, because I would say my specialty is customizing eyebrows.
And I think that's where the industry lacks, is customization. And I have a course for that, by the way.
Yeah. That's really great. That's perfect.
I mostly accept my customization eyebrow course, to be honest.
I think that, you know, viewers are going to get a lot of great inspiration from you. So can you tell me how listeners can find you, where they can find your course, and, you know, take a look at your website and social media?
So my website is luxandlulu.com, www.luxeandlulu.com. My Instagram is luxandlulu. Facebook is at Lulu Browse.
I'm on TikTok also, at Lux and Lulu. You have to be everywhere if you're in this industry, because, you know, there's different demographics everywhere, and you have to try it all out to see, like, where's your people? For me right now, I think it's Instagram.
So if you go to my website, I have a training tab, and right there you will see the mentorships, the training. I hope to do some workshops soon where I practice with latex and have events here. I'm working on some things.
I have two children, so I've been busy building my life. And now I'm in a place where I can do in-person training. And the thing that I want to offer is, if you do come see me for in-person training, the online course will be available to you for one year as part of the package.
And that's something that has really helped me in my permanent makeup career. I've always seeked trainings that have the online course attached to the in-person course because you just can't retain it in a few days. You have to like take a year to re-study the material.
Because it's a big investment to learn permanent makeup, so I think it's important to have that ongoing support through online education.
Perfect. That's awesome.
I love that.
All right. Well, thank you so much, Lulu. It's been a pleasure being able to chat with you today.
Thank you for joining me in this episode of Spa Business Building. If you'd like to connect with Lulu, I will post all of her information in the show notes. If you're a permanent makeup artist who is looking for more information and online courses, Lulu is your gal.
So go to her website, luxandlulu.com, and check out those courses. If you'd like to keep the conversation going, I do have a free Facebook community. It is Spa Business Building Community.
You can join that, and we talk all about our business insights. Make sure that you're following me on Instagram, Spa Business Building, and Facebook, Spa Business Building. I also have a website, spabusinessbuilding.com, so you can find me in all the places as well.
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your fellow beauty and wellness besties. Until next time, stay inspired, stay fabulous, and happy business building.
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